Behind Trump and Vance Is This Man’s Movement

Ezra Klein interviews Yoram Hazony, an Israeli political theorist and author of "The Virtue of Nationalism," to discuss the concepts of families, tribes, and nations, and how they relate to national identity and political order. Hazony argues that nations are built on mutual loyalty and shared characteristics like language, religion, and history, and expresses concern that the United States is becoming increasingly divided, resembling countries like Syria or Iraq. The conversation explores the tensions between national sovereignty and global institutions, the role of a dominant culture in maintaining cohesion, and the rise of national conservatism as a response to perceived threats from liberal internationalism and neo-Marxism. They debate whether a more soil-based, lineage-based vision of identity leads to a stronger nation, with Klein questioning if this approach fosters exclusion and intolerance, while Hazony maintains it's about strengthening a center to ensure tolerance and cohesion.