Preparing for the World After Trump

Dan Kurtz-Phelan interviews Rebecca Lissner and Mira Rapp-Hooper about their Foreign Affairs essay, which argues that Trump's second term will fundamentally change American leadership and the global order, making a return to pre-Trump foreign policy impossible. They discuss how the Biden administration's initial success in restoring traditional foreign policy reduced the urgency to fundamentally remake U.S. grand strategy, and the lessons learned from the Afghanistan withdrawal that informed the approach to the war in Ukraine. The conversation explores the balance between focusing on Ukraine and deterring China, the need to work with both democratic and non-democratic states, and the potential for new policy creativity in the wake of Trump's disruption, including a zero-based review of American foreign policy and the U.S.-Israel relationship. They also address the evolution of alliances, the impact of tariffs, and the importance of adapting American foreign policy to a multipolar world.