A16z Podcast

Key Takeaways

The view of American businesses in the late 1990s was to get into China, outsource manufacturing, and reduce trade barriers between countries; this evolution was celebrated as the start of a new industrial era
- It has since turned into a national security issue for the United States
- China’s unique blend of socialism, totalitarianism, and entrepreneurship enabled this to materialize
Doing business in China often comes with onerous conditions, such as surrendering intellectual property or allowing government ‘inspectors’ access to operations
The main risks to AI progress: (1) The government thinks that there is only one player, (2) One player thinks that it is the only player, and (3) The tech becomes geographically constrained
It is very easy to pour money into China, but oftentimes, it does not come back out
In the AI race, Microsoft’s strength lies not in being the best, but in ensuring it is embedded in whatever platform ultimately prevails
- Apple is not a first-mover company; it is a first-integrator company
Apple faces a critical decision on its AI strategy – whether that is a ‘strange bedfellows’ partnership strategy (Microsoft and OpenAI), support anything that comes out (Amazon), or go its own way (Google, OpenAI, Anthropic)
The silver lining for US manufacturing: Constraints fuel innovation; breakthroughs emerge when smart people focus on tough problems over time
COVID exposed the fragility of the global supply chain system, revealing too many single points of failure to sustain a fracturing world order
The role of IP in US-China competition is a litigation issue; we are in for years of market uncertainty as to how this dynamic will ultimately play out

What if the rise of Apple also built modern China?

a16z’s Erik Torenberg is joined by board partner and former Microsoft Windows chief Steven Sinofsky to unpack how Apple’s pursuit of design excellence and supply chain scale catalyzed China’s manufacturing superpower status - and why that partnership is now under intense scrutiny.

Inspired by the book Apple in China (but not a book review), the episode dives deep into:

The early days of Apple’s shift to Chinese manufacturing
What experts got wrong in 1999 about trade, globalization, and China’s trajectory
How Tim Cook’s operational playbook reshaped the global tech industry
Behind-the-scenes stories from Microsoft’s own hardware battles and Surface launch
Why Apple’s entanglement with China may now be a strategic liability
What COVID revealed about fragile global dependencies — and where innovation goes next
How national policy, intellectual property, and AI intersect in the new industrial era

The episode opens with a few reactions to WWDC: Apple’s new UI, the iPad’s evolving role, and why Apple’s AI story still feels unfinished - before zooming out into one of the most consequential tech and geopolitical stories of our time.

TImecodes:

00:00 Introduction

00:37 Guest Introduction: Steven Sinofsky

00:49 WWDC Reactions and Apple's AI Story

02:27 WWDC Highlights: Liquid Glass and iPad Updates

05:16 Apple's AI Strategy and Market Dynamics

06:34 Meta's AI Moves and Market Implications

13:30 Apple's Manufacturing Evolution: From Garage to Global

20:50 The Rise of ODMs and Global Manufacturing

26:32 Microsoft's Struggle with Piracy in China

27:19 Apple's Revolutionary MacBook Air

29:30 Challenges in PC Manufacturing

31:05 The Rise of Chinese Manufacturing Skills

32:07 The Point of No Return for Apple and China

32:59 Global Trade and Intellectual Property Issues

37:04 COVID-19's Impact on Global Manufacturing

41:19 Future of Innovation and Manufacturing

47:10 Navigating Intellectual Property in the AI Era

48:55 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Resources:

Find Steven on X: https://x.com/stevesi

Find Erik on X: https://x.com/eriktorenberg

Stay Updated:

Let us know what you think: https://ratethispodcast.com/a16z

Find a16z on Twitter: https://twitter.com/a16z

Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z

Subscribe on your favorite podcast app: https://a16z.simplecast.com/

Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenberg

Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.

How Apple Became So Reliant on China & What it Means For Their Future

Podcast Notes Playlist: Startup