This podcast episode explores the challenges and opportunities in DeFi, particularly regarding its inherent vulnerabilities and the need for improved security. It discusses the high rate of hacks and lost funds in DeFi, emphasizing the need to address this issue before DeFi can reach wider adoption. The episode delves into the problems associated with oracles, governance, and upgradeability, highlighting the significance of minimizing external dependencies for protocol resilience. It also discusses the potential benefits of reducing exogenous dependencies and producing necessary data on-chain. Additionally, the episode examines the concept of oracle-free DeFi apps and their ability to eliminate the risk of censorship and manipulation. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the future of DeFi lending and borrowing, emphasizing the urgent need to transition to oracle-free protocols to mitigate centralized oracle risk and improve the overall security of the DeFi ecosystem.