In this episode of The New Zealand Initiative podcast, James Kirsten and Michael Johnston host Dennis Wesselbaum, an associate professor of economics, to discuss the issue of university funding. Wesselbaum shares his interest in the topic, stemming from financial issues exposed during the COVID-19 pandemic and his experience with different academic funding systems. The conversation explores the shortcomings of the current New Zealand funding model, which is heavily reliant on short-term student numbers, and contrasts it with the German block grant system that uses longer time frames and negotiated agreements based on performance indicators. The discussion further delves into whether New Zealand is overproducing degrees, the balance between market competition and government intervention in university funding, and the increasing administrative overhead in universities, ultimately questioning how to optimize the tertiary education sector to meet future labor force needs while maintaining educational quality and accessibility.