Succession planning is essential for businesses navigating leadership changes due to retirement, promotions, or new opportunities. Erin Hoffman, Partner and Senior Consultant at Collaboration Business Consulting shares key strategies for success.

Long-term exit strategies (3, 5, and 10 years) help ensure a seamless transition. Key considerations include:

How will the company evolve?
Will the current management team remain?
Who needs leadership development?

Aligning stakeholders—whether family or business partners—is crucial. Addressing emotions like frustration or uncertainty and acknowledging these feelings can ease transitions.

A solid game plan should outline financial considerations, role transitions, and leadership development. Regular management meetings and third-party reviews help maintain accountability.

Ongoing leadership development and multiple succession pathways provide flexibility. Transparency in succession planning builds confidence and stability, ensuring business continuity through leadership changes.

Resources:

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Beth Vukmanic: Succession planning is essential for businesses navigating leadership changes due to retirement, promotions, or new opportunities.

[00:00:13] Welcome to Sustainable Wine Growing with the Vineyard Team, where we bring you the latest in science and research for the wine industry. I'm Beth Vukmanic, Executive Director.

[00:00:22] In today's podcast, Craig Macmillan, Critical Resource Manager at Niner Wine Estates, with longtime SIP certified vineyard and the first ever SIP certified winery, speaks with Erin Hoffman, Partner and Senior Consultant at Collaboration Business Consulting.

[00:00:37] She explains that long term exit strategies from three, five, even 10 years helps ensure a seamless transition.

[00:00:44] Key considerations include how will the company evolve? Will the current management team remain in place? And who needs leadership development?

[00:00:53] Aligning stakeholders, whether it's family or business partners is crucial. Addressing emotions like frustration or uncertainty. And acknowledging these feelings can ease transitions.

[00:01:03] A solid game plan should outline financial considerations, role transitions, and leadership development. Regular management meetings and third party reviews will help maintain accountability. Ongoing leadership development and multiple succession pathways provide flexibility. Because things are likely to change, transparency in succession planning builds confidence and stability ensuring that the business continues successfully throughout the leadership change.

[00:01:29] If you want to be more connected with the viticulture industry but don't know where to start, become a Vineyard Team member. Get access to the latest science based practices, experts, growers, and wine industry tools through both infield and online education so that you can grow your business. Visit us at vineyardteam. org and choose grower or business to join the community.

[00:01:48] Now let's listen in.

[00:01:53] Craig Macmillan: Our guest today is Erin Hoffman. She's a senior business consultant and partner at Collaboration Business Consulting.

[00:01:59] And today we're going to talk about succession planning. Thanks for being on the podcast, Erin.

[00:02:03] Erin Hoffman: Yes. Thank you.

[00:02:05] Craig Macmillan: This is part of the SIP certified certification and one that I think is often overlooked and a lot of people don't really understand, but I think it's important no matter who you are. To take this into account.

[00:02:15] So let's just start from the very basics. what is succession planning in business?

[00:02:19] Erin Hoffman: Great question. Succession planning is really making sure that somebody besides you is available and ready to take on the reins or responsibilities when you leave or when you get promoted. And I think one of the things that people often overlook is they want to take on more responsibilities, but they're not thinking about, okay, if I'm doing that, who am I shifting some of those responsibilities down to?

[00:02:42] Craig Macmillan: I noticed you mentioned in terms of also promotion. So there may be actually be some internal things within departments even that this could be important for.

[00:02:49] Erin Hoffman: Absolutely. So often we think about succession planning of taking over the business or taking over the reins of the business or managers or leaders departure that can also mean, you know, I think managers, it's important to be thinking about their own promotion or taking on responsibilities as the business grows.

[00:03:05] Craig Macmillan: And so why is this an important topic for people?

[00:03:08] Erin Hoffman: This is probably the single most challenging issue for managers and leaders of businesses. Something that they often come to us and say, I wish I was more prepared or I wish I would have. Been doing this a few years ago. And it, it can really be a challenge for a business because there's a lot of institutional knowledge that is held within those managers and leaders.

[00:03:26] And if they were to leave the business or when they want to retire, where does that transition go? It could take years to really get somebody up and ready. So that's why it's so important to think about.

[00:03:36] Craig Macmillan: I'm guessing that this looks different for different types of businesses, different sizes of businesses. How would things be different for a small, let's say, family owned, family run business, as opposed to something that's maybe a little bit larger maybe it's a corporation, still perhaps owned by the family, but maybe a little bit different structure.

[00:03:53] Erin Hoffman: Great question. All businesses, it starts with having a long term plan, but let's start with those smaller family businesses. It really starts with taking a look at what is that long term plan when we work with clients, we always look three, five years, and then maybe 10 or beyond what's that eventual retirement or exit plan and starting to align those actions with that.

[00:04:13] So I'll give an example of a vineyard that maybe the owner is thinking about retiring in 10 years. They should be starting to think, what does that look like? Do I want it to remain a family business? Do I want management to remain in the business? If so, do I have those people in in place? So starting to think first, what is that long term goal?

[00:04:33] And then we can start to work backwards into who needs to be developed or where there might be gaps.

[00:04:39] Craig Macmillan: So what does this process actually look like? Like, when a client comes to you how does this actually play out?

[00:04:44] Erin Hoffman: Great question. When we work with a client on this we start exactly there, what I, where I mentioned at the long term plan. So asking the leader or business owners, , what is that goal? What is that Long term strategy, not only for yourself and your retirement, but also for the business and what you want that legacy of the business to be and getting really clear on that.

[00:05:05] Often there's especially family businesses, but also non family businesses. There's partners. So getting alignment between those partners on what that long term goal is. And from there, then we would make sure that we bring in, it. Potential successors. Often these are family members, sons or daughters bringing them into that process.

[00:05:24] Once the owner is clear of what their goals are, , we want to bring in that the successor to start talking about what that looks like and make sure they're also aligned with the goal.

[00:05:33] So that's our first step. The couple of things that we run into when going through that process is. Uncertainty of what that looks like for the person that's departing and really working through getting that clarity.

[00:05:47] The other thing that we run into quite frequently is the emotions that are tied up in these types of changes. And we work with that throughout the whole process. So when we start, we let. Folks know that they're going to go through some stages similar to the stages of grief when they go through a succession planning process and as they go through that process because they will start to feel frustration or anger or, you know, frustration that the person that they're handing it off to isn't doing it the way they want it or not stepping up.

[00:06:16] So there's a lot of different planning, but also emotion that comes into it.

[00:06:20] Craig Macmillan: I can imagine this must be a very scary process for a lot of folks, because you're kind of looking at what, oh, wait a minute, like what's going to happen and what's possible to happen. And then there's the question of what's the best outcome. And that's where you're talking about getting the partners and the family involved.

[00:06:37] So they're all sharing that same, that same vision. How do you facilitate that step? How do you get the players to kind of come together?

[00:06:46] Erin Hoffman: You know, the 1st, as I mentioned, we start with if we're working with a business owner, we start with them because it really is about their desired outcomes and timeline. But we start with individual interviews and talk with each of the key. Individuals, partners key personnel in the business and also potential successors to really understand the motivations and desires, but also the other factors that might be impacting the business, the roles, the talent, et cetera.

[00:07:15] So from there, once we have a good understanding and had a chance to hear everybody one on one, we bring everybody together in the decision making team. So this would be like your owners or partners or family and discuss, Hey, here's our findings. Here's where there's commonalities.

[00:07:28] Here's where there's some, there may be differences. The first step is getting everybody on the same page with what, we're trying to achieve.

[00:07:35] Craig Macmillan: Are these processes normally put into place or started by the leader, the, the owner, the CEO, whatever type of business it's structured as or is there some pressure from folks that see that there's going to be an exit at some point and they're like, Hey I'd like some stability here. I don't want to wake up one day and find out that my entire world has just came crashing down which is, which has happened to me

[00:07:59] Erin Hoffman: Surprise. Yeah. Yeah, that's a, great question. And the answer is both. We've had both the , owner proactively come in and say, this is something they've been thinking about. And the successor the most common thing we hear from both parties is, Hey, we've been talking about this for a while and we haven't been able to make any headway.

[00:08:18] It's not so much that it's not discussed or , they don't know. It's just. It's been this vague, long term kind of nebulous goal that there's always work to be done, it's always busy, and it doesn't get picked up. So when we talk to folks, either the successor or the leader is saying, Hey, we've been trying to do this and we just haven't seemed to figure it out.

[00:08:39] Can you help us? And that's where we come in and we really have a structure to be able to start to Put all the pieces in place. We find that once people have a game plan, they're really good at carrying out the plan. usually business owners only go through this once in their lifetime. So it's really, there's not a blueprint.

[00:08:54] Craig Macmillan: And this plan, I'm guessing, takes the form of a written living document

[00:09:01] Erin Hoffman: We have a couple documents that we come away with. So the first one is going to be a partnership agreement. So typically. If the plan is to bring somebody into ownership, there's a period of time where and this is again, this is more for ownership. It might not be in for management teams, but if if there is a period of time where there's going to be some co ownership, we want to get everybody very clear on what is the decision making.

[00:09:28] What is that going to look like as partners? What's the expectation for that retiring partner? And that the process of how that looks, this is where some of the things can go south or. Okay. Get ugly for families or businesses because nobody wants to talk about the money components of it. But then if there's misunderstandings, they could go south really quickly.

[00:09:47] So we get clarity on that. That's 1 document. The other document is we create a milestone document, which is a year over year, or sometimes quarter over quarter plan of these are the shifts that are going to happen in the roles. Here's who's going to take on those responsibilities, maybe even days of the week.

[00:10:04] How many days a week is that person going to be working? Maybe they're starting to step back all of that.

[00:10:08] Craig Macmillan: So there may be some very specific things in terms of like job description, tasks assigned. Like you said, time allotted. How do you keep track of that moving forward? Because you're going to revisit this year to year. I imagine that these benchmarks need to be hit in order to keep things on track.

[00:10:26] How does that process work? You put it on the calendar. Okay, next year on March 1st, we're going to meet and we're going to go over this again.

[00:10:32] Erin Hoffman: We definitely want to build in that accountability to the plan because it's really easy to fall back into the habits of just doing it the way you've always done it. We recommend at the very least. That the the leaders are having a monthly management meeting, and this is getting talked about on a monthly basis.

[00:10:49] We don't wanna put it in a drawer for a year and then pick it back up. And there should be some some openness to be able to hold each other accountable of, Hey, we're behind track on this, or we need to move forward on this. Uh, So that's, that's one of the things that we recommend.

[00:11:02] The other piece. Our team can come in and help or getting somebody that's maybe that third party that , you're setting a meeting with maybe monthly or quarterly, or even semi annually, just to check in of where you're at. Increase that extra accountability of yes, we're sticking to the plan. It's like seeing your personal trainer and having to say you didn't do any of your push ups.

[00:11:23] Craig Macmillan: Right, right, right, right. I like that analogy. That's a good one. That's a really, really good one. Accountability makes a big difference.

[00:11:30] Erin Hoffman: for sure.

[00:11:31] Craig Macmillan: yeah, I've worked on projects around that before. It's fascinating. Just simply saying, I am going to do this to another person goes a long way towards getting that thing done because you, you know, you made a promise.

[00:11:42] Erin Hoffman: Yeah, I get a lot of that from our clients of, Oh, Erin, we knew we were going to meet with you next month. So we, we had to sit down and like, you know, knock it out. So it's like just that accountability of.

[00:11:52] Craig Macmillan: What are some of the most common mistakes businesses make around succession planning?

[00:11:58] Erin Hoffman: It's another great question. , there's a few. I think that one of the biggest ones that comes to mind, especially when it's a family business or an employee to an employer where that is stepping into the leadership. Often discount that person who's stepping into the role, how much they respect the person that's already in that role.

[00:12:17] Let's say they're the, you know, the owner in this example. So they, one of the mistakes is that the owner is like, Oh, I'm just waiting for this person to step up. And in the meantime, I'm just going to keep doing the role. Like I've always done. They don't realize that that person under them respects them too much to say. Move out of the way. Let me, you know, I need to do this now.

[00:12:37] So they there's a natural kind of deferment and it's even if that person is your parent and it's gonna even, you know, increase that. So really understanding that that's a natural dynamic that's going to happen and that . It's we're having that plan and being able to speak to the plan on a regular basis really comes into play.

[00:12:55] So that's probably 1 of , the, the mistakes as I mentioned, talking about it, but not really moving anything forward is 1.

[00:13:01] I think the other piece goes back. Into the, that the stages of grief or the emotion that comes in you know, I think it can be really difficult when suddenly feeling like, okay, what is my role in the business?

[00:13:15] I hear that a lot from folks that are, even though their goal, they, they have a retirement in sight and that's their goal. There's a definite frustration or confusion of, okay, what now? What's next? And so there's. Tends to be you know, they go through bargaining. We had one client that was I think they were a week away from signing off a hundred percent of ownership to his son and came in and goes, know, I think we could extend this another three or four years, you know, just like, it was like they were working the plan and,

[00:13:42] Craig Macmillan: Right.

[00:13:43] Erin Hoffman: But it really comes from a place of just that uncertainty and change that people run into.

[00:13:48] So I think that's the other problem is when faced with that change in those emotions, sometimes they. Blame the process or the person and not that just recognizing that those are natural emotions.

[00:13:58] Craig Macmillan: This is a little bit of a side, but how, how do you advise people around these emotional issues? Because you're moving from being a business consultant into being a therapist at this point.

[00:14:07] Erin Hoffman: Yeah, a little bit.

[00:14:09] Craig Macmillan: A little bit. A little bit.

[00:14:10] Erin Hoffman: I think anybody that's in business and that, you know, deals with people realizes that that's, you know, that's the big component of it is you know, the working with people and , through all the challenges of emotions and things that happen. But One of the best things is knowing, normalizing it, letting people know this is normal and this is going to happen.

[00:14:30] It really helps when somebody is going through that, those feelings to just know that they're normal and it's okay. And that they can feel it. It really is a relief for a lot of business owners, especially when they're having a consultant that's gone through it. to say, expect this to happen. It's completely normal.

[00:14:49] It really can help just settle everything down.

[00:14:52] Craig Macmillan: Without naming names, can you give us an example of a transition? And ownership or management that could have gone better. There's some thought had been put into secession planning earlier. Or at all. I would imagine some folks are coming to you kind of behind the curve on this, from what you're telling me.

[00:15:10] Erin Hoffman: Sure. Absolutely. I think of one winery owner that came to us and he said, you know, I, I wanted to retire five years ago at this point he was in his seventies and so that that's always hard because the, the people on his team weren't. You know, I hadn't really started to develop yet.

[00:15:29] So , that can be frustrating. And I think that it can be a real detriment to the business if that person just says, you know what, I'm done, you guys have it, you know, like, or I'm going to just sell it. It might not be the outcome that everybody would have hoped for. In this case you know, it worked the plan and it actually did work out well.

[00:15:47] And, I went through all of the, you know, some of the challenging emotions, but actually came to us later and said, you know, I'm actually really enjoying, what I'm doing, because he was able to really scale back his role. So it's, it's never too late, but I think it's also never too early. It's always good to start thinking about this and always be.

[00:16:04] And know what that long term plan is you know, God forbid unexpected things happen to have another client where, you know, suddenly a you know, two business partners and one unexpectedly was incapacitated and there was no planning, advanced planning, not really a lot of development of other team members.

[00:16:21] So it took years for that partner to really sift through all of that, the challenges of building the business back up and, and dealing with that. I

[00:16:31] Craig Macmillan: talking to your team, let's say you're the leader, let's say you're the owner and CEO of the company. You've been doing it forever. Like you said, people will tend not to develop unless there's space. To develop into what kinds of advice do you have for folks that are in that ownership, management, leadership to develop their team so that those folks are ready to move up to these new roles.

[00:16:59] Erin Hoffman: think it's first starts with intention, so it takes the owner really sitting down and thinking through his or her role and where he'd like to see people develop and get penciling that out and even thinking about who on the team do they see the capability and the desire to develop the next step is really you know, talking to that person, making sure there's buy in we, if we don't want to create a development plan for somebody without getting them bought into that, that's actually what they want.

[00:17:28] But then creating that space, I think once, you know, , we've identified some of those skills and responsibilities, we've talked to the person, then it's time to create some space. So really, it, is a little bit of for the owner or. Leader to, you know, sit back, sit on their hands a little bit, let that person take on some of the the responsibilities.

[00:17:47] I always use the example of, it's like when you teach your kid to ride a bike. They're going to fumble. They're going to, you know, kind of wobble back and forth. You're going to give them some training wheels, but at no point do you get back on that little pink huffy and say, I can do it better.

[00:18:00] Let me just show you how to do it. Right. You've got to, you've got to let them do it a little bit. And ideally, if you're, if you're planning ahead, As you know, any business leader should be thinking forward. You're, you're doing this in advance and building their skills up over time and not just, in a short burst where you need them to develop all at once.

[00:18:18] Craig Macmillan: It's better to maybe have some swimming lessons than just to be tossed into the deep end.

[00:18:22] Erin Hoffman: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:18:23] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, I can see that. I can definitely see that. Are there surprises sometimes that come up and there's one type of situation that I'm familiar with, I've seen before where a winery owner or vineyard owner, , they started all this mid career probably, or maybe even early career with the intention that this would be a family legacy. And then come to find out later on down the road, the family really isn't that interested in carrying on this legacy. That's gotta be a very difficult situation. If you find that you don't have your team,

[00:18:59] Erin Hoffman: I, I think the one way to think about it is always have. Multiple roads or multiple plans that are going in the same direction, because it is common that somebody that you're developing decides that that's not for them and they drop out, or the family member decides that they don't want to be in that business, or that an opportunity comes to merge or to sell.

[00:19:23] And that it really, you know, it's not what you thought it would be, but it turns out to be a really good solution. one of the things that we always advise is to be . Going in the path that all of these roads work out well, which is really starting to make sure that you're not the only person that knows how to run the business.

[00:19:40] So if it's a family member, for example, we've had family members that say, you know what, I'm not really interested in working in the business and some businesses that were able to stay a family business, hire a general manager that was an employee and still sustain that family legacy. That's the one option, but.

[00:19:56] it came from that owner being able to start to shift some of those responsibilities to, and create a clear job description of a leader or management team that could run the business. So I think always be prepared for those types of scenarios because we have seen people drop out or plans change.

[00:20:15] I had one client just recently where it was an employee purchase and the employee. Kind of the final hour said, you know what? I just, this isn't for me. I don't want to move forward. And they felt like all their plans were for nothing. But they just came back to me. It was about a year later and they said, we have a new employee.

[00:20:33] He's great. All of the plans that we've already put in place are. Already in place. So it's, it's already set up for us to start getting this person ready. You always want to be prepared for that.

[00:20:44] Craig Macmillan: yeah, that could be exciting for a lot of folks too. I think you may be in a spot where you're in the middle and you're kind of doing your thing and you just don't really see any chance for advancement because. Mom and dad are still running the show and he seemed pretty happy doing that. If there is kind of a, a plan and a vision, I would say of where I can be in five years, I would imagine that probably helped with buy in from the whole team, I would think.

[00:21:10] Erin Hoffman: That kind of speaks to another thing that business owners are afraid of, of even talking about this with their team. Oh, I don't want to talk about retirement because I might scare people and they leave, but what we found is the opposite is true. When you're sharing, hey, we're really thinking over the long term.

[00:21:25] We have a long term plan. Here's potential opportunities that can be inspiring for folks. People feel more comfortable because they know that there's a plan. Don't make the mistake of being really hush, hush about it because people are more afraid of the unknown than the known. That's the fact that you're thinking about it and making plans.

[00:21:42] People will feel good about it. The other thing that's interesting is especially for those family business owners out there. When doing a process like this, we tell people you have to separate the family hat from the employee hat. And because often you started the business family and working in the business is one in the same, but you have to be able to separate like what what's ownership.

[00:22:07] And what are those responsibilities and what are the roles and responsibilities of an employee? Like, could I hire a general manager to come in and do these responsibilities? And then what's the responsibilities of that and risk of the owner.

[00:22:21] Craig Macmillan: This is very realistic. I can imagine there's some folks who have aspects of their job that they really enjoy and they're really good at. And then if they're looking at new roles, there probably might be some things that they're not so excited about doing. And it's perfectly all right from understanding it to say, hey, this little gap here, we can fill it a different way.

[00:22:38] We can meet. What the business needs in a couple of different creative ways of doing it. We don't all have to be scared and freaked out. Let's just be very clear on what it is that you like to do, that you will do, that you can do in the areas where maybe we need some help.

[00:22:52] Erin Hoffman: Yep, exactly. We want to really understand knowing what the business need is, and then where people can really fit into a role where they're going to thrive and enjoy it.

[00:23:01] Craig Macmillan: This reminds me again, this is from personal experience where there was a transition and the owner wanted to sell. The business and it was a family business and the general manager was family. I was a hired gun. And when he came to us and said, Hey, I want to, I'm going to sell this thing. Both the grandson of myself like freaked out.

[00:23:20] We were like, Oh no, we put all this effort into this and it's all going to go away. And he said, no, no, no, no, no. You're part of the package. You are the vineyards and the buildings and all that. Then there's you, you guys are part of what I'm selling because you do such a great job.

[00:23:34] Erin Hoffman: Yeah.

[00:23:35] Craig Macmillan: Is, is that a real thing?

[00:23:37] Like if you, if you're own a business and you're talking to a potential buyer is that buyer going to be interested in who you have and how they work and what your team is like, or is it going to be clean house?

[00:23:46] Erin Hoffman: Great question. I absolutely, they're interested. So think about it. If I'm, going to buy a business, number one. If the owner is doing all of a lot of the work and has a lot of the knowledge, and I know that owner is leaving as soon as I buy the business, that's a big risk. So what I don't want is I don't want that owner to be heavily involved in the day to day.

[00:24:06] And I don't want that owner to be the sole source of any information, especially about business operations. However, if. That business has a strong management team that have experience, loyalty to the business, knowledge. And when I purchased that business, their knowledge is going to come with that as long, you know, as long as I treat them well, that's highly desirable.

[00:24:28] if the owner is heavily involved and there's no management team, then the business is going to be heavily discounted by that buyer, because , there's a lot of work that needs to be done to get that business up and running to the point where it's self sufficient.

[00:24:43] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, I've often wondered about that because I I see two models. I see folks that have built up a business, they sell it and then they go to Hawaii and that's it. They walk away. And then I've seen businesses where the, the owner who's selling sticks around for a period of time and usually has a contract that says I will be available for these things for the next so long.

[00:25:03] How long is a reasonable transition period? If I'm planning on retiring and I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm good to go. But I got to do this. How much time do I need to think I'm going to be involved?

[00:25:15] Erin Hoffman: It's a great question. If it depends on if it's a sale to an outside party or an internal, you know, I think if it's a employee succession, there may be, it's going to be a longer off ramp period. And often it makes sense for that business owner to either stay on as a consultant or an employee for a period of time.

[00:25:35] Not only for. The kind of retirement plans of that owner, but also for the benefit of the the business and continuing on that being said if it's an outside buyer, I would say it'll limit it at a year. , it's a real difficulty with maybe the option to renew, but I've seen some owners that have entered into longer contracts with the buyers.

[00:25:57] years. And. in some situations that works out, but in some situations that they really start to change because somebody comes in and they're starting to make all kinds of changes to what was your business. You're now an employee after being an owner for a period of time. And honestly, you're kind of ready to go and do the next thing.

[00:26:13] So. You think about how long can you work under that that kind of contract situation. Sometimes the financial looks positive, but lot of people are unhappy, especially if it's over a year of doing something like that.

[00:26:28] Craig Macmillan: so this doesn't have to stretch out forever,

[00:26:29] Erin Hoffman: It does not have to stretch out forever. And honestly, I think that, again, it can be uncomfortable for both parties.

[00:26:34] The owner seeing changes and they, you know, maybe that they wouldn't have done. And then the new buyers and they're kind of. Having to be mindful of the owner's feelings about what they might be doing again. There's, there's all different scenarios, but typically when done well as a faster transition that works well, I think still being available to answer questions is like on a per contract or per as needed basis is useful, but not as a, like a contract employee.

[00:27:00] Craig Macmillan: right? In all of your experience with this, is there a again, without naming names, is there a really great success story that you've seen?

[00:27:09] Erin Hoffman: Yes, we've seen a lot of really great success stories, and we've seen it for different reasons. You know, I give a couple of different scenarios. One was a multi generational business. So they were actually going from 2nd generation to 3rd generation and had. By this point had a lot of family members working in and out of the business and had also some family dynamics and fighting conflict that was happening.

[00:27:33] And so by getting really clear on what the expectations of that owner had and versus working in the business and what the requirements were, and really making the requirements for somebody working in the business. You had to fit the job description and qualifications. That was a huge success and really brought that family back together, but also the success of the business.

[00:27:54] The other one that we've seen. Success. I mentioned earlier, the owner that, you know, a week before transitioning the business to his son was said, you know, maybe I'll stay on for a few more years they stuck with it. They, they signed it over and the business is thriving. It's, it's continuing to grow the energy of the son coming in.

[00:28:16] He's developed a management team under him and. The father is now having, now that he's actually had the chance to go through it, is feeling really satisfied as being an advisor and seeing the success of the business, but not being tied to the business. He was ready to retire.

[00:28:32] Craig Macmillan: That's really great. And I hope everybody has that kind of experience. Is there one thing that you would tell folks on this topic? One piece of advice or one insight?

[00:28:42] Erin Hoffman: One piece of insight is. We, you know, talked about starting sooner than later, but the other one is, you know, planned for the unexpected. it never goes 100 percent like you think it will. And sometimes I'll explain it like you dump out a puzzle and all the puzzle pieces are upside down.

[00:28:57] So you're just taking time to flip over the puzzle pieces and figure it all out. Plan for a few unexpected things to come in there, you know, maybe midway through your finance person decides they're leaving or the loan that they thought the buyer was going to get falls through. There's all kinds of different scenarios.

[00:29:13] So I think having that flexibility and knowing that that's part of the process and planning those multiple paths is really important.

[00:29:21] Craig Macmillan: That's good. Great advice. Where can people find out more about you?

[00:29:25] Erin Hoffman: They can visit our website. It's collaboration llc. com. We're based in San Luis Obispo. We've been on the central coast for over 20 years. So we'd definitely be happy to talk to anybody if they're interested about this topic.

[00:29:40] Craig Macmillan: Fantastic. And we will have lots of links and and resources on the show page. So please feel free to check those out. I guess today was Erin Hoffman. She is a senior business consultant and partner in collaboration, business consulting. And I just really want to thank you for being here. This is really interesting.

[00:29:57] It's a topic that most people don't think about.

[00:29:59] Erin Hoffman: Yeah, great. Well, thank you for having me. It's really great to talk about it.

[00:30:07] Beth Vukmanic: Thank you for listening.

[00:30:08] Today's podcast was brought to you by Vineyard Industry Products, serving the needs of growers since 1979. Vineyard Industry Products believes that integrity is vital to building a long term customer, employee, and vendor relationships, and they work hard to provide products at the best prices they can find. Vineyard Industry Products gives back by investing in both the community and the industry.

[00:30:32] Make sure you check out the show notes for links to collaboration, business consulting, and their informative blog.

[00:30:38] Plus sustainable wine growing podcast episode. 221, future proof your wine business with omni channel communication.

[00:30:46] If you liked the show, do us a big favor by sharing it with a friend, subscribing, and leaving us a review. You can find all of the podcasts at vineyardteam.org/podcast, and you can reach us at podcast at vineyardteam. org. Until next time, this is Sustainable Wine Growing with the Vineyard Team.

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268: How to Tackle Leadership Transitions Successfully

Sustainable Winegrowing