We host Guillaume Klossa, a noted French thinker and writer on Europe, and the president of the EuropaNova think tank. He is also the chair of the "Conclave", a high-level reflection platform advising European leaders. Klossa has a strong interest in digital issues, and was advisor to former EU Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker in that capacity.

Asked about strategic autonomy in the digital space, Klossa says that "we should have our own platforms in Europe. And this is really feasible. It's a matter of five years if we really want it. This is not clearly in the AI continent-wide plan proposed by the EU Commission. We should be clearer on this point. The Commission's plan is good. It sets a certain number of objectives. But we need a very quick implementation strategy. We can't wait another 10 years."

With the challenge posed by US big tech and the Trump administration in mind, Klossa explains further: "I think we in Europe have an opportunity because the US tech giants are aligned with President Trump. There are many people working for those companies who doubt about whether they want to go on working for them. And there is an understanding that we need to develop our own digital platforms and cloud capacities."

But can the EU realistically compete in this field, when the US outspends the EU?

"In fact, in public expenditure we have more or less the same level as the US," Klossa answers. "The big difference is that, in America, private investors and tech giants are investing much more, and with much more impact. And there we have an issue, because our high tech is not strong enough. But we have the capacity to increase massively our debt, which is not the case anymore of the US or Japan."

We put it to Klossa that many Europeans do not want to get into more debt, and that the idea is not politically sellable in many European capitals.

"This is no longer a taboo," Klossa counters. "Be aware of the position of the German chancellor, Friedrich Merz. The German constitution has been changed [to allow for more debt]. There is an opportunity to boost the Franco-German relationship. But there is also a common understanding that we need to transform the EU into a global power, and very rapidly."

Putting some broader historical context to his thoughts, Klossa says: "When we founded EuropaNova 20 years ago, it was already clear to us that we were entering 50 years of global crisis. And in that framework, Europe cannot be only an observer. It should be a power and even a political superpower with its own values, capable of discussing with the US, with China, with Russia. And if we were not doing that, the risk for us was to become a vassal."

Continuing that theme, Klossa adds that "up until recently, there was the idea that our security, our defence was guaranteed by the US. And this works as long as the US is a liberal democracy. But what happens when the US is not any more a liberal democracy? And that's the situation we start to see now."

Programme prepared by Perrine Desplats, Oihana Almandoz, Isabelle Romero and Luke Brown

Europe needs its own digital platforms and cloud capacities: EuropaNova's Klossa

Talking Europe