This week on Sinica, Kaiser chats with Elsa Kania, a Ph.D. candidate in Harvard University's Department of Government and adjunct fellow at the Center for a New American Security who researches China's military strategy, defense innovation, and emerging technologies. Elsa joins the show to discuss China’s push for Military-Civil Fusion, debunking some of the myths about the program that U.S. pundits and policymakers have imbibed.

03:54 – Did the concept of Military-Civil Fusion start with the leadership of Xi Jinping?

06:48 What were the barriers to MCF’s successful implementation before Xi’s leadership?

09:50 – The comparison between attempts and successes of MCF in China and the U.S.

15:39 – Areas of focus of China’s MCF. Which areas offer the most significant possibility for success?

20:17 – A look at the perceived legal obligation of Chinese companies to participate in MCF

24:59 – The collaboration between Chinese and American researchers in light of MCF

31:00 – The awareness of Chinese policy-makers of the sensitivities associated with MCF by other nations

34:56 – Does MCF have the same place of prominence in the Biden administration

that it did in the Trump’ administration?

37:20 – How should we approach the policy of MCF?

42:27 – Is the U.S. trying to “out-China” China?

A complete transcript of this podcast is available at TheChinaProject.com.

Recommendations:

Elsa: Translation State by Ann Leckie

Kaiser: A recipe for making homemade nuomi cha / genmai cha — green tea with roasted glutinous rice

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China's Military-Civil Fusion program: CNAS fellow Elsa Kania on the myths and realities

Sinica Podcast