This Fresh Air interview features a retrospective on Athol Fugard, a South African playwright, actor, and director who died at 92. The interview, originally recorded in 1986, explores Fugard's defiance of apartheid, his collaborations with Black South African actors despite significant obstacles, and the personal and societal impact of his experiences. Fugard discusses the challenges of working under censorship, the power of theatre to effect social change, and his personal reckoning with his past complicity in the system. A key example is his play *Master Harold...and the Boys*, based on a shameful childhood incident and his later understanding of apartheid's injustice. The interview also includes segments remembering Jerry Butler, a soul singer who recently passed away, and Roy Haynes, a jazz drummer whose centennial is being celebrated.
