Notion’s lost years, its near collapse during Covid, staying small to move fast, the joy and suffering of building horizontal, more | Ivan Zhao (CEO and co-founder)

This podcast features an interview with Ivan Zhao, co-founder and CEO of Notion, focusing on his journey building the company. The conversation covers Notion's initial struggles ("lost years") in finding product-market fit, the importance of balancing personal vision with user needs ("sugar-coating the broccoli"), and the value of iterative development and codebase resets. Zhao emphasizes the importance of "craft" and "values" in building a lasting product, highlighting Notion's lean operational approach and its evolution into a horizontal platform serving diverse use cases. A key takeaway is Zhao's advice for founders to embrace iterative resets, focusing on building something authentic while remaining adaptable to market demands.