This podcast episode explores the multifaceted nature of joy and its relationship with sorrow, purity, and societal collapse. Author Ross Gay shares insights on finding joy in chaos and the significance of taking joy seriously. The discussion highlights the interconnectedness of joy and sorrow, emphasizing that one cannot exist without the other. Exploring the Puritan view of joy and purity, the episode argues that purity limits joy by separating us from others. It also examines the complexity of joy amidst adversity, finding moments of gratitude even in dystopian scenarios. Ross Gay's unique perspective on joy as a serious subject and his emphasis on writing about beauty in difficult times offer a thought-provoking lens for examining joy's profound meaning.