Oligarchy For Me, Retaliation For Thee

This podcast features an interview with Francis Fukuyama, where he and host Jonah Goldberg discuss the state of liberalism in America post-Trump election. The conversation begins with a disagreement over Patrick Deneen's assessment of Fukuyama's views, then delves into the shortcomings of neoliberalism and "woke liberalism," and the threat to core liberal principles from the Trump administration. Fukuyama argues that Trump's personalist approach undermines institutions and erodes trust, while Goldberg explores the rise of post-liberalism on the right and the challenges of responding to illiberal trends. The discussion concludes with reflections on the lasting impact of Trumpism, the role of institutions, and the need for a renewed commitment to classical liberal principles.