This week on Sinica I'm delighted to be joined by Amy King, Associate Professor in the Strategic & Defence Studies Centre at The Australian National University. She shares her ideas about how perceptions of insecurity can paradoxically motivate closer economic relations between two states, and she looks at not only the examples of China and Japan after the end of World War II, but Australia and China as well. We also discuss Sino-Australian relations over the last 15 years, and much else!

2:48 – Key phases of Australia-China relations over the past 15 years and the security and economic nexus

9:05 – Amy’s research into the Sino-Japanese relationship and how perceptions of insecurity can motivate closer economic ties, and how Australia is responding to China now

21:22 – How Amy would argue the case for economic engagement with China to folks in Washington

26:31 – Securitization in Australia and the important differences between Australia and the U.S.

30:20 – The shift in the Australia-China relationship under the Albanese government

33:12 – What the U.S. can learn from Australia

35:14 – Why people tend to conflate Australia’s experience with America’s

39:04 – Amy’s essay, “The Collective Logic of Chinese Hegemonic Order,” and how we can understand China’s role in the emerging post-unipolar world

42:47 – Three mechanisms employed by China to amplify its voice post-war (amplifying, grafting, and resistance by appropriation) and how modern “middle powers” can influence the international order now

52:31 – The state of discourse on China in Australia and what Amy believes China wants

58:54 – Amy’s thoughts on pluralism and international order

1:03:22 – What lessons about de-risking and navigating multi-alignment Australia should be learning from other nations in the region

Recommendations:

Amy: Fintan O’Toole’s We Don’t Know Ourselves: A Personal History of Modern Ireland

Kaiser: The Paul Reed Smith (PRS) SE Hollowbody II Piezo electric guitar

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Australia, China, and the Economics-Security Nexus with Amy King of ANU

Sinica Podcast