In this episode of the Prodcast, the discussion centers on the crucial role of human factors in site reliability engineering (SRE), moving beyond the usual focus on technical metrics like MTTR and severity levels. The guests argue that these metrics can often be misleading and less useful. Instead, they advocate for a qualitative approach that emphasizes the impact of human actions and expertise on system reliability. They stress the importance of learning from incidents by gaining a deeper understanding of the system, rather than just compiling a list of technical fixes. The conversation encourages a shift in focus towards what makes systems thrive, rather than merely what leads to failures. Additionally, the episode addresses the risks of misaligned incentives and potential government regulations, urging the SRE community to take proactive steps in shaping a future where human expertise and collaboration are at the heart of reliable systems.