In this podcast, Nassim Taleb joins Scott Alexander to discuss Taleb's latest book, which delves into his hedge fund, Universa, co-founded with Mark Spitznagel. The conversation highlights Universa's innovative investment approach, which acts as a form of insurance against "black swan" events—those rare and unpredictable market crashes. They examine the mathematical foundations of this strategy, Taleb's early insights regarding the COVID-19 pandemic, and how a "non-naive precautionary principle" can be applied to risk management across various sectors, such as public health and climate change. Additionally, they address the shortcomings of conventional risk management models and emphasize the crucial distinction between perceived risk and actual risk.