This podcast episode delves into the origins of Glitch, a unique web development interface, and its evolution into Kinopio, a project aimed at enabling flexible problem-solving and collaboration. The speakers discuss the inspiration behind Glitch and the challenges faced in creating a tool that simplifies web development. They highlight the importance of recreating the tactile experience in web tools and the advantages of local-first software. The conversation explores the construction of a canvas-based tool, the unique features of Kinopio, and the spec used for importing and exporting data. The speakers also reflect on the importance of design and engineering in product development and share their experiences working independently. Overall, this episode provides valuable insights into the journey of creating innovative web development tools and the interconnections between design and engineering.