This podcast episode explores the launch of the Athena token and the subsequent controversy it has generated in the DeFi space. The hosts discuss the integration of Athena into MakerDAO and AAVE, which has sparked a conflict between the two protocols. They also discuss MakerDAO's decision to increase interest rates and become more competitive in the DeFi landscape. Additionally, the episode delves into the challenges of horizontal expansion in DeFi and the recent sentencing of Sam Bankman-Fried, the founder of FTX. The section concludes with a discussion on the debate surrounding Blast's response to a hack and the evolving landscape of exchange modalities in the crypto space.